Episode Notes
Welcome back to another episode of AccessWorld, a podcast on digital inclusion and accessibility. On this episode, we have a chance to connect with Ayelit Winer and Brianna Burrows from T-Mobile’s accessibility team. Eyelet and Brianna share the strong growth of accessibility within the corporate culture of T-Mobile in recent years and their work launching Magenta A11y, an open-source platform for mobile developers that is a one-stop shop for making sure mobile applications are accessible for all consumers.— not just T-Mobile customers, but for customers around the globe. They share what got them interested in digital inclusion and accessibility and give us a glimpse into what the future holds for accessible mobile communications.
Check out Magenta A11y at: www.magentaa11y.com
About AccessWorld
AccessWorld is a production of the American Foundation for the Blind. The podcast is a companion to AccessWorld magazine, which is celebrating its 25th anniversary. To check out the latest issue and browse through the archives, which are all completely free, visit www.afb.org/AW.
About the Hosts
Aaron Preece is the editor-in-chief of AccessWorld, and Tony Stephens leads communications for AFB. Together, they share their passion for digital inclusion and take time each month to engage in conversations at the intersection of technology and accessibility. For questions or comments about the show, email communications@afb.org. Be sure to like and subscribe from wherever you get your podcasts!
Produced and edited by Tony Stephens at the Pickle Factory in Baltimore, MD. Digital media support is by Breanna Kerr and Kelly Gasque. Music compliments of ArtList.IO and hosted on PineCast.
About AFB
Founded in 1921, the American Foundation for the Blind creates equal opportunities and expands possibilities for people who are blind, deafblind, or have low vision through advocacy, thought leadership, and strategic partnerships. Since its inception, AFB has been a leading voice for access and independence through technological innovation. In addition to publishing AccessWorld and the Journal of Visual Impairment & Blindness (JVIB), AFB is also the proud steward of the Helen Keller Archive, which is available on the AFB website at www.afb.org.
AccessWorld Podcast, Episode 16 Transcript
Intro (00:00):
AFB. You are listening to AccessWorld, a podcast on digital inclusion and accessibility. AccessWorld is a production of the American Foundation for the Blind. Learn more at www.afb.org/aw.
Tony Stephens (00:41):
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the AccessWorld podcast, a podcast on digital inclusion and accessibility. I'm your co-host, Tony Stephens, assistant vice president for communications at the American Foundation for the Blind, and joined with me as always our other fearless co-host, Aaron Preece, who's our editor in chief of AccessWorld. Welcome to blustery February, Aaron.
Aaron Preece (01:04):
Yep, episode 16. This time.
Tony Stephens (01:07):
Episode 16 for I feel like 16 degrees below zero probably is what it feels like. Hopefully folks are finding this podcast in a nice warm space. We have some exciting guests on here today that are going to be talking about some very, very cool projects taking place in the accessibility mobile communication space. So we'll be joined by those and make those introductions in a second. But as we move into February, we are excited that this is another one of the quarterly drops for the AccessWorld Magazine. So Aaron, what have we got in store for AccessWorld coming up later this month?
Aaron Preece (01:41):
So for AccessWorld, a lot of articles, this issue, I can say some highlights are going to be, I'm doing a review of the meta glasses. I've had those kind of on the shelf in the queue for a while, and as they continue to receive updates, it seemed like a good time to review those and they can, as a mainstream product, they're surprisingly useful for people who are blind. So we will have a review of those. We'll be covering some information on low vision accessibility in gaming mainly. So far I've done a lot of the gaming articles and we've really focused on accessibility for people who are blind and severely low vision because that's where I'm coming from, but there's a lot, I would say most accessibility features in the mainstream are actually more for low vision. So we're going to be covering that this time. We'll have some employment pieces, some other product reviews, a lot of stuff this time.
Tony Stephens (02:40):
Very cool, and folks can check that out by going to afb.org/a along with 25 years as we celebrate the 25th year anniversary of AccessWorld. All of those back issues are there as well, so you can check 'em out and enjoy the reading. If you're snowed in somewhere looking for something to help pass the time by the fireplace, you can check out AccessWorld online. So that'll be dropping on late February, maybe the 25th we're targeting. So we'll send more announcements out with that and maybe have some more updates in next month's podcast, which will be another exciting episode. We will be announcing some of that in terms of things. Speaking of things to announce on February the 19th, the Public Policy and Research Institute for a FB will be holding a special webinar. You can go to afb.org and follow our social media links as well to get a registration link for that.
(03:31):
You can also sign up for the research mailing list there. They're going to be releasing a report on artificial intelligence and its impact on the disability community. And so we're excited. We're to put in the final touches on that. It'll be up on the website, if not by the time this podcast drops on February 1st. But that's an exciting webinar on February the 19th at 12 o'clock eastern time, nine o'clock Pacific. Be sure to check that out and we'll be hearing from our public policy team on an upcoming episode of AccessWorld to talk a little bit about that exciting research diving into the things like the meta glasses, Aaron, you were talking about, and all the other things in that space. But let's get on with our guests today because it's exciting in the space of mobile communications and telecommunications. Our guests here today are very familiar with the accessibility space that's playing out in that particular industry. They are themselves very much involved with an enormous expansion through the mergers of these two companies that have become one of the leading carriers for mobile communications in the United States. And so with T-Mobile to talk about an exciting project they've been undertaking in the accessibility space, I'm lucky to welcome Ayelit Winer and Brianna Burrows. Hello, Ayelit and Brianna. Happy to have you all.
Brianna Burrows (04:48):
Hello. Thank you for inviting us.
Tony Stephens (04:51):
It's exciting to have you all here with us. You both are based out of Seattle, which is about as far away from where I am in Baltimore. I know sleepless in Seattle. There was a Baltimore Seattle connection with Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks. Hopefully things are going well there. You all are surviving winter. The weather's been crazy all over the country
Ayelit Winer (05:12):
Doing well, but it feels like we are on the luckier side of the state at the moment, having I think a week of full sunshine.
Tony Stephens (05:24):
Well, we're happy to send you some of the snow that's still kind of grossly on the shoulders of the curbs here.
Ayelit Winer (05:31):
Yeah, we're fine, thank you.
Tony Stephens (05:32):
If you look out to the cascades and you're just wishing you had snow, I can put some in a box and ship it there and I'm sure it'll stay frozen.
Tony Stephens (05:40):
Thank you both for joining us. T-Mobile's been on an exciting track over the past couple of years and we're excited that you both can be sharing with us about it, particularly about Magenta. We'll get into that in a little while, but tell me a little bit about what you both do within the larger corporation and particularly just kind of in the accessibility. Share a little bit about yourselves, please.
Ayelit Winer (05:59):
Yes, well, hi everyone again. My name is Ayelit Winer. I am the senior manager over the Accessibility Resource Center, which is pretty much our digital accessibility program that really works on the enterprise level and really enhancing digital accessibility across the board. If anyone is wondering where is my accent from, because you might wonder that somewhere along this podcast. I am originally from Israel, relocated here 16 years ago, which is insane. But if anyone is asking Tony, I'm 25 years old, don't give out.
Tony Stephens (06:50):
No, that's fine. 25 with your voice. That's great. Thank you. I had in 2000 to be in Haifa and was just blown away by the telecommunications infrastructure. That was a place in Israel at that time.
Tony Stephens (07:02):
Exciting stuff. But great that you're with T-Mobile and probably as far away from Israel as you can be literally halfway around the world. How about you Brianna? Oh, go ahead.
Brianna Burrows (07:15):
Thanks Tony. So yeah, I actually Ayelit is my boss. I am one of the managers on the accessibility resource center team, and I manage a group of really incredible individuals who are subject matter experts in digital accessibility. So I have about nine folks who all come from prior, usually software engineering backgrounds. I have a couple actually who have both design and software engineering backgrounds. And their job is to work within the actual product scrum teams that are actually creating software for T-Mobile. So we have a large amount of scope as we're making lots of software for our customers and for our employees. And so they actively work through that entire life cycle to make sure that we're including accessibility at every stage of the development of that software. So it's a really, really great group of people and we have a lot of work that we've been doing and have made some incredible progress. So we're pretty excited about what we've been doing and what's to come.
Tony Stephens (08:07):
We'll share a little bit more about that team and how large they are, but also too, just what got you all interested in accessibility? How did you find yourselves in this career?
Brianna Burrows (08:17):
Yeah, I can share a little bit more from my perspective. I actually got into accessibility through coding actually. I went back to school and decided to learn software engineering myself and I joined a bootcamp. And when I enrolled in the bootcamp, there was a woman who was also enrolled and she was blind. And it was my first time really experiencing someone with a disability, interacting with assistive technology and seeing her use a screen reader and not just using the internet but actually learning to code with a screen reader was just eye-opening to me. And I really wanted to learn more about this kind of various, it's not necessarily a unique aspect of coding, but is a different aspect than backend for sure. And I just wanted to dive deeper and deeper. And so I finished the program and I just developed more of an understanding of it incorporated into my own work. And that is really what got me on this path. So it was through software engineering.
Tony Stephens (09:12):
How about you A,
Ayelit Winer (09:14):
So my story is really one of those, I got into this really by coincidence, one of those being at the right place at the right time. I've been part of the engineering organization also, but more focused on how we can improve our shop better code quality, best practices, aligning all the different teams, all the development teams. And then at some point we really realized that we really need to do better on accessibility, on digital accessibility. I didn't know much about this back then, but I really looked into that and learned a lot, learned from a lot of people and figured out that hey, we should probably look into making a better formal program that is not just about our developers, but really go bigger than that and build a strategy on digital accessibility. And I started looking into that building this idea of what would it look like and presented it to my senior manager back then and my director.
(10:30):
And they really liked the idea and took me to the VP to present to her, and she was excited about it and took me to the SVP back then who was first of all really, really excited. But the first thing that he told me is like, yes, we need to do it and I want to be your executive sponsor. And he took me to the CIO to present. And I think that it was after the third slide that our CIO was already telling me two things. One, how come we don't have this already? And the second thing that he said was, tell me what you need. And within minutes, I was probably one of the richest people on the company. I got a major budget to go and build this, head counts, their support buying everything that I needed. So I really got into this by coincidence, but really seize the moment and learned and really want to build something big.
(11:36):
So the idea of the program wasn't just about meeting the compliance requirements or doing the bare minimum, it wasn't about that. The idea was to really transform T-Mobile and change the culture and really build this into everything that we do. So yes, the main focus is within the software development lifecycle, but we were really able to shift the culture across the board, which is something that I'm really excited about. T-Mobile has, its five big core values and two are, the first one is we love our customers. So talking about accessibility, talking about digital accessibility and what we can do better was like an immediate sell and no argue there. And then the other value that really plays well into this is dream big and deliver. We can come to our leadership with big ideas and we can have their support. And that's how everything started really just by trying to do better.
Tony Stephens (12:38):
That's fantastic. One of the things I mean we want to do is jump into the Magenta project and talk about how the idea of dreaming big and a little bit about the need, but then explaining for our listeners what it is, what does and the space that's going to have that isn't just impacting the people that would work directly maybe with, it's something that can help the entire world. And so share with us a little bit about one, the name, where the name came from, some of the ideas of what it is this platform that you all have worked to create and a little bit about how that dream became a reality of what that is and how it's helping the broader disability access space.
Brianna Burrows (13:29):
I can go into Magenta Ally. Yeah, magenta Ally is such an incredible tool. So first of all, it is open to the public, so it's not just a T-Mobile tool. And Magenta Ally, we came up with the name because a common thing we see in accessibility is the number A 11 Y, right? It stands for accessibility. It's got 11 characters in between the A and the Y, and it also can be pronounced as Ally, right? Like a liaison, a friendship, a partnership. And so we wanted to combine Magenta, which is our brand color and accessibility, and also the fact we are creating allies across the world and wanted to put that together into a name. And I think that's how we kind of came across Magento ally. It had other names prior, but the magenta ally is what stuck in what won the most. So, and the tool is a pretty amazing tool that allows people, whether they're a software developer, developer, product owner, product manager, to get the criteria that they actually need to be able to say when they get to releasing software that is accessible.
(14:37):
So you can actually copy and paste the acceptance criteria for specific features. So let's say I'm building a dropdown menu and I need to get that criteria to make it accessible, but I might not know what that is. Maybe I'm an accessibility expert, maybe I have another background. And so I know that that's a requirement though. So I can go to magenta ally.com and I can select that I'm building a dropdown menu for a web application. So I can go to dropdown menu, select, and then I can copy and paste all that criteria that's generated. It's automatic, they don't have to do anything else, and then they can go back to their stories and paste it in. So it's a really easy tool that allows people to get the basic requirements to make a feature within software accessible. So it's an amazing tool. It's really fast, really easy, and there's a lot of different nuggets in there. We also provide code samples, we provide demos, we provide best practices. So it's just a plethora of information for anyone, whether it's T-Mobile users or someone at Apple or a different company or even people working in personal projects can use this. And the best part of it is that it's also open source, so our community can also contribute to it as well. So they can go onto GitHub and they can see if there's an issue or they want to contribute something as well to the project.
Tony Stephens (15:57):
I want to bring in Aaron for a second, our co-host, Aaron, because one I talk too much, but two, Aaron, I know with your work, because Aaron and I have a lot of conversations on the side about the resources and tools that are out there and how we can leverage whatever's available for people to use to improve their skills. We had a long conversation this morning just about PDF renderings and some of the headaches that can happen and the idea that when you create this clean code, it's like the curb cut effect. I mean you're doing, it's just good programming, right?
Brianna Burrows (16:31):
Yes.
Tony Stephens (16:31):
Clean, tidy on the back end. Something could be, oh, well we got a heading and we, you can use little air quotes on either side of your head and say, oh, it's accessible. When you open up the hood, you're like, Ugh. It's very messy. As we were finding with a document this morning talking about remediating. But I mean Aaron, the uniqueness, because we've talked about this in other forums of this kind of platform, I wasn't aware of anything like this that was this kind of, there's the WCG 2.0 guidelines people can use, but that's kind of reading a manual for a very complex home equipment, something that can make your head spin.
Brianna Burrows (17:11):
I like to say it.
Tony Stephens (17:14):
Exactly. Yeah. But yeah, Aaron just weighing in the ideas of this, it's pretty innovative.
Aaron Preece (17:21):
Yeah, I have a lot I could say about this. I have been incredibly impressed with it. I've been playing around with it and it is very, very thorough and very easy to use. I like that you mentioned the W ag guidelines, even just as a reference tool, being able to break things down by component versus having to hunt through the guidelines to find all the guidelines that might apply to the component is super helpful. And just being able to build out your site and the thoroughness of all the controls that are available to mix and match to fit exactly the kind of page that you're building or that you're assessing is really, really useful. And just from a screen reader perspective, I use NVDA and I found the site just super easy to use, very efficient. So I've been very impressed. One thing I think is really cool too, this is just, I'm guessing this is pretty well known.
(18:16):
I'm the programmer, but I'm assuming this is well known in the programming space, but I think I'm going to maybe mispronounce this, but is it kin, I guess it's like a rhetorical style that is used to write the test style. I thought that was really cool and how that gave, it gives you a good way of assessing the page. I'm not sure the best words to use here, but basically the way that presents the test cases in the ways that the page should behave seems like a really good way to test. And I had not seen that before and I really appreciated that aspect.
Brianna Burrows (18:51):
The kin and condensed criteria is amazing. Kin is a great way. It's like conditional statements when I see this, then I expect that and people have different preferences. And so we recognize that some people want to have the gurkin style and some people like the condensed and regardless of which style you use, you're getting the same information. So it's super, super helpful and we appreciate that feedback, Aaron, that you also like that we've had conversations on should we get rid of it, should we keep it? And so I really appreciate you saying that.
Ayelit Winer (19:20):
I think that if I can jump in here for a second, I think that the beauty of the tool is that it gives you what you need when you need it. One of the things that we've done when we started the program was to really bring all of the developers into one room and then one week of full training, five days, nine to five training, which I don't underestimate the value of training. Training is super important, but it only gets you this far. If you don't use it on a daily basis, you will forget it. So the idea of the tool is looking into how would the product team will think about, how does the developers think about what do they need at that moment when they're now developing a new component on that page. So it really helps you to get there, really get it in the most easy way and accessible way and give you what you need focused, be focused on what will get you to the next step.
Aaron Preece (20:20):
I like too that the checklists, they keep you on, basically they make sure that you're not going to forget something. I know personally when I do usability testing, I have to be very careful not to forget that something actually is inaccessible, if that makes sense. Because something I might see so often on a regular website that I'm used to just navigating around that, it doesn't even register as an accessibility issue. And so having that reference to be able to go over and specifically buy page and know exactly what elements are on the page that I need to be looking out for and the behaviors I need to be looking out for, it seems really helpful just to make sure I don't miss anything just from seeing an inaccessible issue so often. It just becomes background noise.
Brianna Burrows (21:01):
Yeah, it's a great tool. It really will get you really far for accessibility. And we mentioned this within Magenta Ally, it doesn't obviously cover all of WCAG for every single aspect, but it gets you really, really far. And so like you said, Aaron, it's so easy sometimes to miss things because you start to see the same defect over and over again. You recognize where it goes or where it doesn't go. And so Magenta Ally is a great way to just hold everyone accountable to these things that sometimes we just can kind of glaze over so used to seeing it.
Tony Stephens (21:35):
So what have been some of the success stories you're hearing from developers and people out in the field? When did this launch again?
Brianna Burrows (21:44):
Was it -
Ayelit Winer (21:44):
2020? Remind me. Yeah, I think in 2020 a success story, I had someone in one of the previous conferences asking to take a selfie with me and show it to their team because they are using it on a daily basis and they were so excited to meet the team behind it that developed it.
Tony Stephens (22:04):
Everyone's a celebrity now in this world.
Ayelit Winer (22:07):
I was really
Tony Stephens (22:08):
Excited. Good Tech conference. Yeah, that's so great.
Brianna Burrows (22:10):
I was at Accessibility Toronto back in October and I was watching a presentation by the CBC and they were talking about how they built an accessibility hub for all of broadcasting communications within Canada, and they had a list of resources that they recommended and the first one was Magenta Ally, and I turned to my team member who was there and we were just giggling so happy. We didn't expect to see our tool get mentioned as an official resource within the Canadian government. So that was pretty exciting.
Ayelit Winer (22:45):
That is cool.
Ayelit Winer (22:45):
We are starting to see more and more in presentations how people are using it and really loving it and how it helps them. And it's something that we really started with developing it for our team just because we recognize how hard it is to keep people on track with everything that needs to be done. So it started as something internal and then we're like, Hey, we should really open it up for everyone. And there is so much value in this, and I really think, and I think that that's something that is being brought up. Again. Again, again, we are not competing in this space. If one of us win, we all win. So if there is a way that we can contribute from our experience, from our knowledge, everything that we can do to help other teams succeed, we are always looking for those opportunities.
Tony Stephens (23:35):
Such a fantastic development that you all have given the world, which it's great for your customers, for all the developers that are serving your customers, but it's great for every customer on the planet. So well done for T-Mobile's value proposition with that, with just making the world a better place.
Ayelit Winer (23:52):
Definitely.
Tony Stephens (23:53):
Yeah, so it's exciting. So this will be five years then coming up this year.
Brianna Burrows (23:59):
Yeah!
Tony Stephens (24:00):
I'm still in shock that it's 2025 myself.
Ayelit Winer (24:05):
I feel that this really demonstrates the freedom that we have that my team has at T-Mobile to go and pursue our dreams. So we've invested a lot of time in this tool and we keep adding to it and more features and we've added videos and there is so much content in it. And really this is something that we really believe in and we have all the freedom to go and build it. And T-Mobile is supporting us and behind us, and I think that that's part of the things that we really love about working at T-Mobile and doing here is that we can go and pursue our dreams.
Tony Stephens (24:48):
That's great news in terms of never stop dreaming, what's next on the dream? Wishlist are the horizons. Are there other things you all are focusing in on? Is there a continuation to, you mentioned expanding this or finding new ways to improve it with the videos?
Ayelit Winer (25:04):
So Brianna, do you want to talk more first about this?
Brianna Burrows (25:07):
Yeah, yeah. So we're actually at the very tail end of a redesign of Magenta Ally, which will be much more intuitive to use. It will be more accessible. We recognize there are aspects of it that needed just a little bit of tweaking. It'll have more content. It will be way more comprehensive than it already is, which we're really excited about. We also have some future vision of integrating some more documents within testing, so people that can have these prefabricated templates for their own testing use and eventually at some point maybe creating some type of integration into AI that people could then use as well. So we have a lot of vision for this tool, but we're really excited about the redesign, which will probably be wrapped up here in just another month and a half or so. So that's coming up for Magenta Ally.
Tony Stephens (25:56):
So if you check it out now, you can say you were there when
Brianna Burrows (26:01):
The original, one of the original users.
Ayelit Winer (26:06):
And I also want to add that 2024 was really a big year for us because I think all of the things that we wanted to do, and we didn't always have the time to go and do that. We did it in 2024. It was a very busy year.
Brianna Burrows (26:21):
Yes, it was.
Ayelit Winer (26:22):
Some of the things that we're doing, which is actually really the fifth year, but we have our annual summit, annual digital accessibility summit that my team is running. I'll just say I think it's important to know there are a few other accessibility teams within T-Mobile. Each one is focused on a different, but we really work together and are aligned and helping each other to really help the entire program to grow. But every year we are running our annual summit, which really gets a lot of attention and we have thousands of people that are attending. It's an internal side, just clarify, start as a small idea of maybe we should do this and maybe have a few sessions and then grew into this monster that everyone are now waiting for on an annual basis. So that's one of the things that I'm really excited about. We get such great feedback and it goes back to our program and one of the main pillars of our program is awareness and outreach. I think that one of the biggest problems with really getting to a good place with digital accessibility is that people don't know about these things. They're not familiar with this. They don't know how this plays into their day-to-day job. They don't understand that they've never seen, for example, a blind person that is using a screen reader. So the awareness piece for me is the key to get a successful program.
(27:56):
So the annual assignment is really played nicely into that. Another thing that we've launched in 2024 was our digital accessibility champion program. Again, at the enterprise level, this is really an opportunity for peers to recognize each other on really doing great things in the accessibility space. It's catching really nicely and we have a few winners with 2024, and that's a program that we really, really like because recognition is so important and it's something that is really big at T-Mobile.
(28:31):
So we've launched that and then our biggest dream that was there way before covid back then when we had a huge budget, but you know how things after covid, everything, everyone were hesitating about building something in physical space, but we've built our accessibility lab, which built it from an idea that we had and really pulling in people from all over the company to help us do this and get their excitement on this one. So last year we didn't, in 2023, we started with just a popup lab. We took a table and a few things on it, went to the lunch area and pulled people in. This year we were actually able to build a space. It's really nice, well designed. We bring people in, we talk to them about the different disabilities, what does it mean and what are the assistive technologies that are being used, what are the different solutions that are out there, how all of that plays into the digital space and really helping them learn and providing a safe space for people to ask questions. And you'd be amazed of how much people are so into this and are so interested and really, really appreciating having a space like this and talking to people from this space about everything that they're seeing and learning. So that's a few of the things that we've done in 2024 that I'm really, really excited about.
Tony Stephens (30:08):
That's a few. That's a lot. You all have done a lot.
Ayelit Winer (30:10):
I have more.
Tony Stephens (30:13):
It's exciting to know you're still dreaming. I wish I had one of the sound bites of the little dream, like watery sound of life before covid, but just in thinking of magenta ally and we're talking about the disability lab and things like that, it is so much of our world has really migrated, not so much. Pretty much all of it has migrated to the digital space.
Tony Stephens (30:42):
It runs on the back of mobile communications. So I mean to see you all taking a lead in that is great news.
Ayelit Winer (30:49):
And I want to say something specifically to the digital space as you said. I think that the biggest challenge with spreading the word on digital accessibility and getting people to follow this is that we don't see our customers. So we build products, we build all of these flows and then features and stuff, but we don't see our customers and we don't see when they have a struggle, we don't see the challenges, we don't feel the pain, which is really different than designing something for the physical space. If you have a customer wanting to come into the store and then they're using a wheelchair and there, there's no ramp in the entrance, there is no elevator, only stairs, whatever, you see the problem, you're there. You can empathize with it. On the digital space, you build a product and you ship it and that's it. You don't know what happens.
(31:46):
I mean, yes, there are research and surveys and stuff, but when people are struggling, you don't feel that. That's why I think that one of the most important thing that we are doing and we'll keep doing all the time, is to bring in the voice of the customer. We've done it a few years ago in all hands, when we talked about our program, we actually recorded one of our blind team member going through one of the experiences and we captured those moments of frustration and we put all of them in one video and played it in front of all of the product development and testing. And I think that was a moment. People still remember that. And that was a few years ago. That was a moment where things click and they're like, shoot, I never realized that. The things that I'm sending out there to the world can cause such big frustration for people.
Tony Stephens (32:47):
Aaron will echo. We run into that a lot, don't we, Aaron?
Aaron Preece (32:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Ayelit Winer (32:52):
Yeah. So again, awareness and then helping the people on the digital side really feel their customers.
Tony Stephens (33:00):
Yeah. Well, we're excited. You're dreaming about the future and still thinking and dreaming big, which is great. Can we share a little bit about too, we are at the time of this podcast, dropping the day before was the closing day for our digital accessibility bootcamp. See if I can get that out of my head. For our internship program, it's a paid internship program that a FB does each summer and it brings, I think we had 19 students from around the country last year participate. It's an excellent opportunity for them to sort of do similar to what you were talking about Brianna and how moving it was. They get a chance to mentor with blind developers who are on our team. Aaron has worked a lot with mentoring the interns as well as some of our other developers on staff. But it's a great opportunity. And a little bird on my shoulder mentioned maybe you all will be helping out ILL, is that right? Or if not, I can cut this out, but
Ayelit Winer (34:00):
No, we're very excited about this. Brianna, do you want to talk about this?
Brianna Burrows (34:04):
Yeah, we're super excited. We are definitely going to have a partnership between AFB and our team to do work on Magenta Ally. Since Magenta Ally is an open source tool, we want to bring people in to help. And so as part of the redesign effort, we're actually going to have more documentation and more resources to actually have the community support us in building this tool. And so we're going to be working together with having some of my team members build out issues and GitHub and being able to assign them to folks who are interning at AFB and really actually create a partnership and really make it truly actually open source tool. So we're super, super excited about this.
Tony Stephens (34:44):
We're so thankful y'all could bring that to the equation of the work they're receiving. Our developers are receiving. I mean, Aaron, you'll test firsthand. Aaron. I mean, it truly is an immersion program. They learn a lot, but then they are the next generation, the next gen of developers out there. And just to make them that savvy, but let them know, like you mentioned language earlier, I've lived in other parts of the world and you'll get that language, but then when you're not in that space walking on those streets, you tend to get a little rusty. So it's amazing that there's something like Magenta that you can just go to quickly, even if you think you know it and get what you need right away.
Brianna Burrows (35:22):
And it's a great tool because it's just like WCAG it's, it's a living document, so is magenta ally. We're constantly updating it, improving it. We're always open to feedback from the community and making it just the best tool possible for everyone.
Tony Stephens (35:37):
Fantastic. Well, we really appreciate that partnership and really, really respect it and are so thankful that we can not only be here on the podcast promoting magenta ally, but also literally we're using it. It's kind of like I'm a middle-aged man. I could say the hair club for men. Not only am I a customer, no, but no, I mean we use it and I think that says a lot in terms of how much we as an organization respect the product you're using. And I have a little receding hairline, but not significant just for those, since this is a podcast.
Ayelit Winer (36:11):
25 or 25 years old.
Tony Stephens (36:13):
Exactly. I'm a little older than 25.
Ayelit Winer (36:16):
You're 27? That's 27. Okay. I actually got my husband and kids to every year on my birthday the balloons with the numbers and the number on the cake is 25.
Tony Stephens (36:30):
There you go.
Brianna Burrows (36:31):
Wow.
Ayelit Winer (36:32):
Well, educated on how to approach.
Tony Stephens (36:34):
Well done parenting is what that is, so awesome. Well, Brianna, Ayelit, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of AccessWorld. Any closing thoughts, Aaron, as we're signing off and looking ahead to the next issue dropping and other things in the world?
Aaron Preece (36:50):
The main thing for me would be going back to getting the internship students, having that chance to work with your team on Magenta. I think that's great just for getting experience in a real world like programming, a software development type of environment, since that's often the jobs that our interns often go on to do. So that real world experience is so important and I think it's really cool that they're going to be able to do that. Yeah's
Ayelit Winer (37:26):
Amazing. We are super excited about this opportunity and partnering with you guys. We learned so much from you, and I really love the dialogue that we have going on.
Tony Stephens (37:38):
Well, we appreciate the dialogue taking here today. So what's a way that we can find Magenta Ally, Google in it with T-Mobile or what's the best way?
Brianna Burrows (37:46):
Magentaa11y.com. So magenta, and then this is all one word, magenta, and then a11y.com.
Tony Stephens (37:57):
Wonderful. Well, thanks so much for sharing that. We'll put a link in our show notes for that. Folks reminder, check out AccessWorld's issue when it drops later this month. But if you want to get caught up on all the other issues behind go to afb.org. Be sure to like and subscribe to our podcast. You can email communications@afb.org with any questions or comments for this episode. But for now, this is Aaron and Tony saying thanks so much for joining us on this episode of AccessWorld. We will talk to you next month.
Outro (39:28):
You've been listening to AccessWorld, a podcast on digital inclusion and accessibility. AccessWorld is a production of the American Foundation for the Blind, produced at the Pickle Factory in Baltimore, Maryland. Our theme music is by Cosmonkey, compliments of Artlist.io. To email our hosts Aaron and Tony, email communications@afb.org. To learn more about the American Foundation for the Blind or even help support our work, go to www.afb.org.
AFB.
